Financial Independence, Retirement Dreams and Frugality - II |
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This is a continuation of the original thread Financial Independence: Retirement Dreams?
There...that loaded much faster!
Well done Bylo
By way of continuing the dialogue, I have taken the last major posting in our debate on the merits of frugalityl Gilles posted the following: Back to the definition of frugality. I guess I could be considered frugal... spending within my means, saving for retirement and daughter's education, only debt is my mortgage which will be paid for in a few years, always paid cash for our car and kept it until it's ready for the junk yard (my wife managed to give an early retirement to our previous car :) ). But if you looked at my cash flow (especially the outflow) you sure wouldn't think I was frugal. The only luxuries we have are restaurant outings once a week, and our golf membership (although while I'm playing golf, I'm not spending money elsewhere). Where I draw the line is shopping for a lower price, gardening, making my own beer and wine... stuff like that. I find shopping to be terribly unproductive and if I was given the choice to go shopping for four hours and going to work for four hours I would choose to work because I enjoy it a lot more (or maybe I just hate shopping so mmuch). Clearly when it comes to big ticket items, I will shop around because the time spent is worth the trouble. You will never see me at a garage sale or at an auction - the trouble with buying used is that it's so difficult in getting exactly what you want. I will also pay for painting the house, lawn care, snow removal, and house cleaning. Life is too short. You could argue that I could work four days a week and do this work myself and come out even but the reality is that 1) I really hate to do this work and 2) there are not many businesses that will accept a four day work week. Anyway, I guess frugality comes in degrees. Out of 10 I'm probably a 6 and you are probably a 9 (FI: the frugality index :) ). Gilles, Good response. Very clear explanation of where you stand in terms of frugality, etc. I think each of us must decide how to best use our time and money. I believe if you don't like gardening, home repairs, shopping or making your own beer and wine that it would make no sense to do so. I think your set of likes and dislikes can be consistent with frugal values. It is still possible to ensure that you get the best possible value for your food budget without gardening. In fact, I think gardening is for me often more relaxation than good economics. I guess the point I'm trying to make in common with many others on this thread is that we work hard for our money. It just makes good sense to get the most value from each dollar spent. This doesn't mean that everyone must move to the country or haunt garage sales or auctions. It doesn't mean that everyone should work less hours. Frugality: means being conscious enough to truly make thoughtful decisions on how we want to spend our time and money, which really means how we decide to spend our finite and ultimately unknown amount of life energy. Many people are not conscious of how they spend their time and money. They are not conscious of the price they pay in life energy for buying that latest model car or some other gizmo that they will hardly ever use. They are not conscious of the exchange they make: so much finite life energy to buy something that they may not need or want. Frugality is not about deprivation. It is not about girding our loin cloth and putting on penny pinching smiles. It is actually quite the opposite. It is more about really enjoying to the fullest those things and services we choose to purchase. If you buy a bottle of wine, for example, then take the time to really appreciate its' bouquet, its' colour, taste in the mouth and its' taste in combination with other foods. Fully use it. Fully enjoy it. Extract all that it has to give. A funny thing though when we really start enjoying to the fullest our (????) we almost naturally start needing less. We feel perhaps for the first time in years satisfied. We know we enjoyed to the fullest what we purchased and that it was worth every cent paid. We have enough. And if we have enough, why go on buying and buying. Once one reaches the point at which we have enough, where a bigger house or newer car or brighter coloured rug is not going to increase our happiness, then truly without any sense of deprivation one starts to spend less and save more. But what does one do with this surplus? We frugal types know that buying more stuff and paying others to do what we can do as easily and probably better makes little sense. Many people who have reached this awareness of their needs, start seriously examining why they should continue working. Working for most people really only satisfies our need for money. But what if we can satisfy our simplified needs on part time work or a combination of part time work and investment income Many consciously frugal people know with conviction that time, which they can use for their own goals is the most valuable gift to buy oneself. So naturally many frugal people choose to use their finite time to meet their goals not someone elses. I don't know if this rather long winded explanation of what frugality means, to me at least, helps clear up some of the misconceptions surrounding this rapidly growing North American movement.
Thanks Bylo. richie Cunningham in stereo. just what I have always wanted.. Next is how to make a whistle from Prairie grass. then how to smoke your whistle so you can take a trip and never leave the farm. SIGHHHH.
I think for many reading this thread, frugality is a term laden with austerity and deprivation. i don't have an alternative but here is a re-positioning. We often lose sight that money is really only a convenient tool for exchange. Frugality is perhaps an keen awareness of value and the connection between what I do in order to attain what I want. Forgive me for sounding Marxist, but I often feel alienated from my work because I spend the day boosting the bottom line of an abstract entity, namely the corporation, and then the pay rolls in regularily and I hand it to some other entity that supplies my pre-packaged food that I don't have time to prepare, and other ones to provide all the services and products that I need. Rejecting this lifestyle and taking this to its logical conclusion and you end up a Hutterite or growing cotton to make your own clothes, but my point is that you can derive enormous spiritual -for want of a better term- satisfaction from a direct connection to the fruits of your own labour. As a student, I was a BC treeplanter, and it was a uniquely satisfying job. Planted over 100,000 trees one summer. Paid by the tree piecemeal, you were paid in direct relation to how hard you worked. I'm sure that Michael Eisner and others out there would claim the same, but there is something fundamental about manual labour, or being a craftsman, artisan or farmer. I work hard and live in the city. Its pretty good a lot of the time. But I come home late, stop at the market and buy a plastic bag of premixed salad greens for dinner, and I've exchanged a percentage of my daily labor for that privilege. Alberta-Jon however, (I suppose)harvests his from a well-tended garden that he has planted and tended, hoed and watered. He has exchanged his labour for that privilege. Who derives more sustenance from that simple salad?
Alberta Jon you said, "A funny thing though when we really start enjoying to the fullest our (????) we almost naturally start needing less. We feel perhaps for the first time in years satisfied. We know we enjoyed to the fullest what we purchased and that it was worth every cent paid. We have enough. And if we have enough, why go on buying and buying." I couldn't have said it better myself. Now I understand your point of view much better and realise that we have much more in common than I originally thought. I'm glad we had this discussion. :) Howard you said, "richie Cunningham in stereo." I got a good laugh when I read that (ROTFLMAO). But you're still an asshole. Do what I do, if you don't like the thread, ignore it. That's what I do with most of your postings including FRANCE's postings which I am convinced it's you in your darkest form.
Bylo, Thanks for helping us use our time more frugally in this thread. To All: More later. For now: That man is the richest whose pleasures are the cheapest. Henry David Thoreau The morality of work is the morality of slaves, and the modern world has no need of slavery. Bertrand Russel from In Praise Of Idleness All my possessions for a moment of time. Queen Elizabeth I, 1603 Back later today. Enjoy.
Bylo, Thanks for helping us use our time more frugally in this thread. To All: More later. For now: That man is the richest whose pleasures are the cheapest. Henry David Thoreau The morality of work is the morality of slaves, and the modern world has no need of slavery. Bertrand Russel from In Praise Of Idleness All my possessions for a moment of time. Queen Elizabeth I, 1603 Back later today. Enjoy.
With a name like Gilles Maurice i would expect you to be an expert on A$5 H&*^s, you prbably meet them a lot in your cruising. The nice thing about wealth is that it is a great screening agent.. You can afford the neighbourhoods, the clubs, and the Mutual Funds that the losers, such as Gilles, only criticise. So Gilles, continue to throw the insults, your comments are of absolutely no concern. every successful individual learns to live with the insults of those who rationalise their failures. Alberta Jon, NO SERMON PLEASE, preach to those who want to listen.
Howard, According to my trusty dictionary the word "sermon" means: "a serious talk about conduct or duty." I started this thread to engage other people like yourself, Gilles and many others in "a serious talk" about a "serious" issue: frugality. So to the extent that the word "sermon" can be defined as a serious talk, I have no other choice but to continue the "sermon." PS. I don't think that you are an a...... and I think based on what I have read in this thread and others that Gilles is a fine man as well.
To All Contributors: I regret I won't be able to contribute much to this thread and others for the next few weeks. I am, in a few hours, going to start spending some time doing spring cleaning around the yard and garden. But mostly I plan on reading, reflecting and relaxing. I plan on being very much out of touch with the "real world." I appreciate your thoughtful comments. They have given me much to think about. I spent time yesterday and today quietly reading the contents of the other threads in this forum. It really is a wonderful source of information, especially for someone like myself who has decided it is time to informally pursue a degree of my own making in the science (???) of investing in funds. I think that I won't be truly financially independent until I know how to manage my investment money. Maybe there are more frugal ways to invest money? Maybe with more of a hands on approach I will increase my annual portfolio performance? Maybe it will be fun to manage my portfolio like it is fun making some of my food, beer and wine. But just as important is it is another area of my life that I wish to be able to knowledgeably control. So I will be "seeing" you all in about two weeks. May all your investments prosper! May you and yours live in peace, harmony and health! May you learn to truly appreciate all the blessings that have been bestowed on you. God bless. Amen.
Alberta Jon, now i know who you remind me of. Bart simpsons neighbour. the guy with the moustache that homer is always borrowing things from. hope you have composted regularly, no nasty artificial stuff for your organic garden. i think your heart is in the right place, but you really do get on my nerves. like Ice Wine, you are just too damn sweet. relax gilles , he's married.
Gilles is correct. Howard you are an a**hole! NO doubt about it!
We think of ourselves as careful or prudent rather than frugal. It however paid off. We saved and invested well and retired ten years ago at 55 with more money than we can spend in our lifetime. Our problem is it is difficult to change from careful to a spender. We could afford a 80M Lexus but no car is worth that kind of money. We spend about $50M a year on travel but do you think I could spend the extra to fly Business Class. No way. FPs and these forums advise you on how to invest your money but no one suggests how to spend it. We have no individuals who wish to leave the money. Any suggestions?
Careful That is a problem MANY OF MY RETIRED CLIENTS HAVE!! Seriously, you should sit down with someone to hash out a decent estate plan to make sure the untimely passing of one of you doesnt create some problems (spousal transfer dont usually but...) On the spending side email me and I'll send you my home address (actually I have TWO home addresses which gives me an idea for SOME of your money) OK, actually, I would suggest one or two pet charities. You may wish to combine these with personal activities (I used to contribute both time and cash to the local Foodbank for example) or make them fun. Another example would be paying for a whole classroom of kids from a lower income school to go the Children's Festival or a museum, that kind of thing. If you can use the spare cash to make your own lives "richer" while helping out someone else, it is good for your karma.
I think SCREAMING said it indirectly... maybe you should consider spending some of it to help other people while you are living and enjoy watching the results of your generosity.
oh sure, BE succinct...
Howard, you said: "The nice thing about wealth is that it is a great screening agent.. You can afford the neighbourhoods, the clubs, and the Mutual Funds that the losers, such as Gilles, only criticise." Let's see now... I live in the Hunt Club in Ottawa and am a member and shareholder of the Camelot Golf and Country Club, one of the finest private golf clubs in the area which also gives me access to many other private golf clubs and social clubs in the area. I invest in PH&N (in my SDRRSP) among other fine mutual funds. Three strikes and you are out. It's not a question of financial wealth. It's a question of priorities. The big difference is that you do it for the status and to boost your ego, I do it for the convenience (house location) or just because it's the best track in town (golf). I am more wealthy than you will ever be. And I'm not talking about money.
Howard, You took the words right out of my mouth. Alberta-Jon IS Ned Flanders, Homer's neighbour on the Simpsons.
I've think a good many of you who are reading this thread would really enjoy the novel Letters From Wingfield Farm by D. Needles. It's short, funny, Canadian and on-topic! Enjoy :-)
Dave, Ned Flanders? Hmm.mm, happily married, good children who he delights in, good neighbors who he finds no fault with, optimistic outlook on life, even in the face of adversity, christian, god fearing, moral, adjusted, good community member...need I say more. Why, Dave you really are too kind. Ned Flanders, I remind you of Ned Flanders. Golly gee...Dave, you really are an astute man! You can borrow my barbeque any day and I will forgive you if like Homer you may forget to return it until next winter. Careful, Careful, prudent, frugal: Semantics. In reading your posting I was reminded of an elderly woman I once knew who was probably much poorer than you who told me in a voice full of depression that shopping wasn't any fun anymore, that she had nothing else to buy. Sadly this lady died a short time after this conversation. I don't know what the cause of death was, but I bet in part, at least, it was a sense that her mission in life--to consume, to be a consumer--had reached it absurd conclusion. She simply could not stuff more stuff in her crowded life. In reading your posting, I was reminded of a quote I once read and saved (without the author's name): He/she wrote: There are two things to aim at in life: first to get what you want; and, after that, to enjoy it. Only the wisest of mankind achieve the second. When you were busily accumulating wealth did you not have to put aside some dreams or goals or missions? When younger did you ever want to....If so do it now. You are financially independent! Assuming you also have your health then find the time to discover what is your mission in life and pursue it with full vigour. Your money will never buy you the kind of happiness that will come to you by pursuing your mission; and you and I and everyone else does have a mission, a reason to be. Find it. Follow it. Decide how much money you and your wife need to live on and get busy getting rid of the rest of it in the pursuit of your chosen mission. The advise I am giving here this morning is not new age and is certainly not my own. It belongs to the wisest teachers of the perennial philosophy. For example, one such wise man, Aristotle wrote: First, have a definite, clear, practical ideal--a goal, an objective. Second, have the necessary means to achieve your ends--wisdom, money, materials and methods. Third, adjust all your means to that end. Follow this advise and you will be far too contented, too focused, too free of worry and doubt, too sure of your goal and your mission to ever worry about how you will spend your accumulated wealth. Howard and Gilles, While reading your postings where both of you seem determined to out-wealth each other, I was reminded of yet another quote. This time by J. Paul Getty, who said: If you can actually count your money then you are not really a rich man. Well gentlemen, I can certainly count my money and I bet you can too. No matter how much we have or how fine our house or clubs are there seems to always be someone who has more. And why should any mature person care? Know what is enough to meet your needs and your few wants and then be content. Reach this state of mind and you are truly wealthy! For me, right now, enough wealth is the privilege of being able to soon go out and wrestle with the accumulated weeds and debris of winter. When finished my day's work, I plan on sitting under my old crab apple tree and quaff a few beer, while watching the glorious Alberta sun set. God I am truly wealthy!! See you soon.
Perhaps Bylo can add an appropriately inspirational soundtrack to accompany this thread. I was having flashbacks to Jimmy Stewart in "It's a Wonderful Life".
Alberta-Jon, here's another quote, from a very wise man: ... enough wealth is the privilege of being able to soon go out and wrestle with the accumulated weeds and debris of winter. When finished my day's work, I plan on sitting under my old crab apple tree and quaff a few beer, while watching the glorious Alberta sun set. God I am truly wealthy!! amen.
Gummy, the Alberta sun sets in September and doesn't come back until july. Summer in Edmonton is July 21. Alberta Jon, you must be in mennonnite Country(or is it Mormon,) I get all those religions confused, because you certainly have a missionary Zeal. not sure of the area, is is Cranmore?? Anyway Ned and Homer are the Ying and the Yang of society, makes life interesting. No profound thoughts today, my mental state is still not overly enthusiastic.
praxis, Without doubt our favourite, sentimentally, sloppy, tear jerking Christmas movie is It's A Wonderful Life. But this wasn't really your point. Was it? It is, I am pretty sure, a put down of some sort. But why? What is it that you don't like? My philosophy? religion? province? rural lifesyle? frugality? my writing style? my choice of quotes? Your comments leave no room for further debate. Care to elaborate? gummy, You are too kind. Thank you. Howard, Not Mormon or Mennonite. Although I know some fine people who are Morman or Mennonite. It doesn't matter, to me at least, what denominational family I belong to. I am simply a christian. You have made several stabs at where you think I live: Drumheller, Edmonton, Calgary, Canmore. Sorry, wrong on all counts. I really don't live in any town. We have a small piece of property in the foothills of the rockies, not far from either Waterton National Park or Glacier Park in Montana. More precisely the southwest corner of Alberta: God's country!!! Sorry, shouldn't brag, should I? The climate in my opinion is perfect! Oops, there I go bragging again. Nice cold winters with lots of snow in the mountains for skiing and snow shoeing. Hot and dry in the summer: Perfect for working outside, swimming, picnicing and none of those pesky black flies you have back east. Winter, spring, summer or fall we get more sunshine than any person deserves. Some local people like to complain about the wind, but I don't mind it. Sometimes in the winter it comes barrelling in and within a few hours we go from winter to spring--at least for a few brief days, until winter once again wins back its right to rule our land. I agree, Howard, that it takes many people with many different points of view to make a world or a country. Hope you soon regain your aggresively, optimistic ways.
Alberta-Jon, Up to your usual argumentum ad hominen. Chinook air must be a little thin this time of year in the Badlands! Gagging on your bs wind (LIRA expertise excepted, of course) while pulling weeds in the back 40 to manufacture methanol for the Land Rover :-)
Alberta-Jon: I should've appended a happy face emoticon to that message. It was just a spontaneous comment, not a putdown at all. You have earned my respect and admiration and this is the most thought-provoking thread I've read on this forum. That said however, no one in Hollywood could make a movie like IAWL anymore, and likewise it is rare to hear someone espouse ideas that seem to have no trace of cynicism or irony. I'm trying to figure out if you are an enviable anachronism, or the new millenium man. Hopefully the latter..... Cheers :)
Howard once said (on a thread 'r two) that one is never accepted in Small Town. You're always an outsider. He was, of course, speaking of himself. Two years ago we moved to Small Town (a Mennonite community ... tho' we're not Mennonites). Now my wife runs the corner store and is on the town recreation committee, we help organize the Summer BBQ and Pot Luck Christmas Dinner, I paint people's houses/farms for free (that's paint-on-canvas) and run errands (for the horse-and-buggy Mennonites). It's life in the slow lane.
gummy, don't care. they will always refer to you as the person who bought so and so's house. we lived outside St Mary's and most of the neighbours kept to themselves, they talked Farming. Moved to toronto and immediately became part of the Community. Gummy, despite my postings, i am very gregarious person who will talk to the trees because they can't run away. You are an Outsider. Do they still paint their gates green for an eligible young lady??????
Michael, You wrote: "Up to your usual argumentum ad hominen. Chinook air must be a little thin this time of year in the Badlands! Gagging on your bs wind (LIRA expertise excepted, of course) while pulling weeds in the back 40 to manufacture methanol for the Land Rover :-) " Point One: I am up to my usual exposition of ideas which have merit to me and hopefully a few others. I know you don't appear to like my ideas very much. I wonder where you stand in this ongoing debate on frugality? Is it in your opinion a bunch of stuff and nonsense? Curious? Point Two: Not part of the badlands and our altitude does make the air a bit thin, not the Chinook wind. I hope it hasn't affected my ability to think. Point Three: If I am making you ill, perhaps, you might not bother reading my postings and therefore save your health. But I hope you don't find this necessary. I'm sure I could learn much from your critiques. Still pulling weeds. But it is more correctly the back three acres not 40 acres. I wish! The money I save gardening does indirectly go towards filling up the tank in the old Nissan. I have a limited knowledge of LIRA's based on a bad experience with it. When possible I like to share this limited knowledge with those who appear to have less than myself. Michael, no doubt you don't appreciate the values I stand for, nor do you think there worth pursuing. Fair enough. But it is wrong of you to say I am full of bs. I may be wrong. It might be that how I live my life is irrelevant or even a little subversive in terms of our money values: But I did not come to this forum to lie. I do the best to tell the truth as I see it. I do my best to assume that those who disagree with my positions do so without malice. Michael your critique of some of the ideas raised in this thread, without resorting to character assassination, would no doubt be very helpful. Have a good day. :-)
Howard Where outside of St. Marys' did you live ? I live in an old school house 15 km west of St. Marys . Maybe you went to school here . Blanshard School House # 5
Howard, I have probably noted that I usually let my FA make most of the investment decisions for my portfolio. He has done a fairly good job. I got my quarterly report the other day. Surprise! I find that I have a small but significant position in Pfizer. It along with some bank stocks have done very well! Still in spite of having no complaints with FA, I am seriously thinking of going with a self directed RRSP sometime in the future. For fun and profit, I hope. Good part of the reason why I searched this forum out in the first place. At any rate found it amusing to think that we who are often far a part on many issues share a common interest in Pfizer. Enjoy and may Pfizer continue to prosper!
praxis, One of the problems with this face-less way of communicating is that it is very easy to misunderstand a person's written words. No body language to help promote a better understanding of our intentions. Enviable anachronism or new millenium man? Probably a philosophical and thrifty hick. Thanks for your kind words.
Doug, between Wellburn and Belton on Thorndale Rd 27. before that lives just west of #4 #7 intersection right where the famous Roman line of Donnely fame hits the highway. my wife rescued me from the old shamrock in its' raunchy days.
Hi Alberta Jon- I do appreciate your musings. I thought I'd share with you a story I heard on an American news program. It does not have anything to do with investments or frugality, but it does say something about value. Anyways, the commentator was Bill Bradley (he is a US politician, ex-NBA basketball player and is sometimes mentioned as a future Presidential candidate). His story goes like this. A women is walking down the street on her way to meet her husband. Along the way, another women, with a small boy in tow, comes up to her and asks for a handout. She says that her child is suffering from leukemia and she needs the money for treatment. Touched by her plight, the first women finds a twenty dollar bill (which is all the money she has) and gives it to the mother of the child. They part company and the women goes on to meet her husband. She tells her husband of the encounter and he somewhat angerly tells her that she has been conned -- the boy did not really have leukemia. The women replies "You mean the child is not sick? -- That makes me so happy."
gummy, I have lived both in the city and the country. I have had good times in both places. Really enjoyed both places. The only place I have never liked is the suburbs of any metropolitan area. Awful places in my opinion. Always feel a bit sorry for those who have to live in such soul-less places. Still for me at this point in my life, like you, life in the slow lane is where it's at. If you don't mind me asking: What part of the country are you from? The west, central canada, the maritimes? Where ever it sounds like a wonderful place. Have a good day.
PK, Thank you, It really is a charming and very telling story. I have already clipped it and put it among my scrap book of similar tales and quotes. I continue to be very impressed with the quality of most of the postings, not just in this thread, but the forum as a whole. I understand the folks who run this forum are a bit concerned about some of the goings-on. Really, when I read and re-read what is found on this forum and the quality of the postings like yours and so many others,well, I just hope they stop worrying and start celebrating. They have helped create, I believe, one of the finest forums in this county. Thanks, again. Much appreciated.
Alberta-Jon, Let me guess..... Mountain View?? I know I've gotta be close. My family is originally from Hillspring / Glenwood area.
Alberta-Jon: I live in a wee village in Southern Ontario, overlooking the beeyutiful Conestogo River; I gaze down on the horse and buggies crossing the bridge, watch my neighbour plow his field (with horse-drawn machinery) and paint the cows in the meadow. Idyllic.
gummy, gimme a break. on the weekends your town is full of tour busses or cars on their way to St jacobs or Stratford.. how about those winters???? Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow.
Rob, You get a B+ for geographic detective work. I live within a few kilometers of Mountain View, a little closer to Pincher Creek district than to Mountain View. gummy, Congratulations. Sounds like you have found a small piece of paradise. No wonder the madding crowds beat a path to your door.
Alberta-Jon et al., I've been doing a little web searching on this frugality issue and came upon a list of links that espouses simple and sustainable living. I believe many reading this thread will be interested in searching some of these links. The main consideration is that individuals can do a lot more than a government policy. Indeed, this is the only way that real sustainable living can come about. The link is here. Links include The New Roadmap Foundation created by Joe Dominguez author of Your Money or Your Life, as well as The Simple Living Network. These sites contain ideas, tips, publications and numerous links to similar resources. Hopefully this will reinvigorate this thread. Happy surfing :) Dave N
Alberta-Jon,
Only a B+?? Sheesh, that hurts...
Call me sometime, lunch is on me.
Rob,
I said, "B+". And you said something about a free lunch sometime. Oops, obviously got your report card mixed up. Your grade is, of course, much higher: A, at least.
Dave N.
I hope your efforts meet with success. If not we and other like minded people will have to continue adding our frugal voices to the various threads found on this forum.
I sincerely believe from reading all sorts of threads on this forum over the last five weeks that many people who come here seeking answers to serious questions related to how they will fund their child's education, or their spouses relationship to money, or how will they ever be able to save for retirement or how much must one save to retire could be helped by those who come to these questions with a committment to frugality and simple sustainable lives.
I certainly plan on giving my frugal advise to these seekers--for them to use or not-- and I certainly hope that others who have found value in simplifying their lives and "transforming their relationship with money" will do the same.
Alberta Jon, I stll maintain that you have set the limits too low, and then you shape your life to meet these limits. that's like thinking you are a great high jumper because you set the bar at 4 ft and you always clear the bar. Me, I would rather set the bar at 6 ft, miss it a few times, then start clearing it routinely.
Like Jim Carrey, write yourself a cheque for a million and one day you will be able to cash it.. Alberta, where men are men , and so are half the women(shades of K.D. Lang)
Howard,
After that comment I really hope you never meet my wife!!
Howard,
What if the goal in life is to simply get to the other side of the bar? If the bar is set at four feet and I clear it, I have succeeded in reachng the other side. Why go back and reset the hurdle over and over again to achieve the same goal? Who am I trying to impress? I have cleared the hurdle. I am on the other side!
The goal as I see it is to achieve a sustainable, happy lifestyle. If this can be achieved with an income far less than a million dollars, why go after a million dollars? Seems to me it would be as absurd as constantly raising the bar in order to achieve the goal of jumping over it again and again and...
If you or anyone else truly needs a million or more dollars to sustain their way of life then I guess that is where you have decided to set your personal bar. But you see Howard I am already on the other side of my frugally set bar and well content with the view.
Nor in my opinion is one doing anything particularly noble in seeking more and more money.
I think it is every bit as noble and worthwhile to know that one's own small fortune is enough to allow one to use their time to reflect, pray, read, walk, weed, play with children, love your wife, watch a sunset, help a neighbor, chat with e mail friends across the county, goof off, work a bit,...
I will, then, Howard,while sitting under my old crab apple tree try to think kind thoughts of you and others struggling to jump ever higher. See you on the other side.
No authority on Alberta women other than the one I married and she is woman enough for this frugal cowboy.
Good to see you in more provocative form.
Alberta Jon, how about you try to maximize your investment returns and any in excess of your needs, you devote to a charity of choice.
Why waste what is obviously an interest and an intelligence if the fruits of your efforts may help sustain the less fortunate.. Some people live a frugal life because they have no choice. Some can make a contribution in another way. a 1% higher return could mean the difference of existing or living for some one??? Rob, I sure your wife has developed a great deal of tolerance and understanding over the years. Besides, I am blessed with boyish good looks and a disarming charm.
A little too slow for my life....try bringing the dust bowl to the big city...Vancouver.
Not a slam..I love Alberta.
Tour busses ... in my li'l town?
Publish a map on your website. When they ask for directions, give'em the URL. That'll change their perceptions about yer "l'il town".
BTW, you're not as invisible as you may think. Airways Transit offers charter shuttle bus service to your door. Check out the fare calculator.
WHOOEEE! Ther ya go folks ... drop by 'n say hello.
cyberbob,
I an pleased that you like Alberta. So it would appear do many formerly BC businesses.
Life too slow out our way? I guess coming from Vancouver you get lots of time to think about how slow life is getting: traffic jams that start in Hope and end at the BC Ferry docks where you wait hours on end to go Vancouver Island. Another good place to reflect on time no doubt is when you drive around crowded shopping centers looking for non existent parking, or when you line up for a seat in an over priced restaurant or line up to do your banking or line up to go a movie, assuming you found a place to park your car or lining up to complain to the government about the shoddy work down on your leaky condominium or line up, go slow, line up, go slow,wait, wait, wait and, stop, move slowly, wait, stop.
Not a slam..I love Vancouver..super location..but way too slow for me...way too much time wasted waiting and waiting.
Enjoy! :)
Howard,
What you write makes sense. The path of giving excess funds to charity of choice is something we have considered. Not yet. But perhaps soon.
Rob,
I assume you are in the investment industry. I further assume you are located in Alberta. Am I correct?
What kind of services do you offer? Do you ever work with clients who have both locked and unlocked investments? Do you work with clients who have LRIF's? Do you exclusively handle mutual funds or do you also handle stocks and bonds? How hands on can your clients be in regards to investment decisions? What is your fee structure?
I am not planning on making any moves one way or the other right at this time. But I am considering making some changes by next year at the latest.
My major sources of unhappiness with my present financial investment help is:
One, there lack of knowledge in terms of the advantages of LRIF's over LIF's and there seeming unwillingness to handle LRIF accounts because more people in Canada deal with LIF's: Eastern bias, I think.
Two, I cannot seem to convince them that I enjoy, desire, wish to be fully informed of why and what kinds of decisions are being made with my investments. I like to be in charge or at least completely in the know where it concerns my investments. I usually succeed in getting the information, but not without hassle.
Three, the person who handles my investment must not only be prepared to take the time to explain their decisions, they must also know what their talking about. No jargon, no baffle-gab--straight goods. I may be a frugal rural hick, but I am a well educated frugal-rural-hick who does not appreciate condescending advise.
Four, be open to novel ways of investing and withdrawing and not beholden to prepared charts, graphs and other aides that try to place all clients into the same boat. I am an individual. I do not like being lumped into some statistical averages. The person dealing with me must be prepared to manage my investments and withdrawls to meet my own unique set of needs. I don't know what the rules or accepted ethics of talking about these matters on the forum for all to see is, but this is where I would like to begin my discussions, at least.
By now I think you have some idea of what kind of individual I am: frugal, simple needs, rural, intermittent contractual income, open ended plans for the future, investment horizion extends to the day I die, like to be in control, like to be fully informed.
Care to chat?
Alberta-Jon: Rob is building a new website ... you should pay him a visit:
Gosh, thanx Gummy!
Sorry I didn't resond yesterday, but was off to the big city for the day (Calgary.)
Yes, I'm in Alberta, Lethbridge to be exact - at least that's where my office is. I live west of the city, and am considering a move out to Mountain View (want to be closer to the mountains.) I'm lookingout my front window right now at Old Chief.
I don't mind posting here...
Yes, I work with locked-in investments (And LRIFs, etc. are a part of that.)
I have clients that are EXTREMELY involved (I talke to them at least a couple of times a week) and others who I see only annually. Like MOST true planners, I believe in building INDIVIDUAL plans and portfolios. That means building what's right for YOU.
I don't know that I'm always GREAT at explaining things, but I'm always willing to take the time necessary to make sure my clients understand what's going on.
YOur 4th point kind of fits into the above - I have no two clients or plans that are identical. No planner should.
As gummy mentioned earlier, my web site is under revision right now (I just found a few more glitches today) I'll fix 'em when I get back into the office a little later.
But now, I need to go spend some time with one of my sons - he wants me to go do some archery with him for a bit.
Thanks, gummy.
Rob I took a look at your web site this morning. I'm sure it will only get better as you continue to tinker with it. Would I be able, if I want, to post messages (questions???) to you at your site?
I now know where your office is and how to get there.
I'm not ready to make any moves at this time, but I will continue to monitor your web site and might drop into your office to talk to you sometime over the next few months.
I have read a number of your postings in other threads and am generally impressed with your arguments and investment philosophy.
Enjoy the time with your son.
Rob, wouldn't it be easier to buy him a target???
Howard,
Ummmm, he's got one - we shoot together, and usually at a range (I belong to a couple of clubs, and have a small one in my garage - and one in the back yard -- ahhhh, the joys of country living. Try and do THAT in the city!)
Alberta-Jon,
Stop by anytime. You can pose questions to me by email anytime. I don't have a bullitin board on my site (yet). You can also ask me anything here.
Time to go hit the links for a bit... my game is not doing too good this year (guess that's what happens when you start dragging your kids around with ya!
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